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Report of the EACC Question Time held at 7.30pm on Thursday 24th September at City Chambers.
Topic for the debate was Neighbourhood Partnerships. Vice-chair of EACC Richard Ellis chaired the debate. Notes taken by EACC secretary Jenny MacKenzie
Leading the panel was David Lyon, Head of Performance and Community Engagement at CEC. He was joined by three Neighbourhood managers
Mike Penny - City Centre Neighbourhood
Mike Avery - South West Neighbourhood
Peter Strong - North Neighbourhood.
The chair noted that this panel discussion was taking place as a result of a developing dialogue that has been taking place between the EACC and David Lyon. With plans to expand an initial small group to include several more EACC members and a programme of regular meetings, it is hoped that this dialogue will continue to develop and yield tangible results.
David Lyon commented initially that since their inception nearly 2 years go ago NPs are up and running and generally working well. The first year or so focused on setting up the partnership boards and the busisness arrangements. It has only really been in the last 6 -9 months that NPs have been able to focus more on their core business. Business arrangements are established and Community Plans are either in place or being developed. The other point to note is that NPs are far wider than jus the NP Board and that most of the Partnership activity takes place outside NP boards meetings in the sub groups, forums and Community Councils. There is also a whole range of community activity at group level – the ‘active citizen’ that NPs also need to link into. Our challenge is: How can we make the most of that situation?
Mike Avery: Took up his post six months ago. Local NP business meetings are focused and committed to devolving governance where possible. Intent on a ‘market stall effect’ where the services are delivered efficiently and effectively. Good relationships with the ‘customer’ and those supporting the process are crucial to success.
One CCllr (Pentlands NP) agreed that the process is working in the area and CCs and the public are able to influence things on the ground. It was regrettable however that CCs were not more directly involved in the NP review process.
Mike agreed that this was an oversight and stressed that the working relationship between the public and NPs is two-way. If things can be improved, it is important that information is fed back to managers and their colleagues.
A Ratho CCllr expressed disappointment that if the representative is not able to attend business meetings, the opportunity for representation is lost. Another noted that there can be a perception that business meetings are cliques of influence and decision making, like ‘an old boys’ club.
Peter Strong: CCs have a big part to play in the working of NPs. Different styles of delivery are being trialled for public meetings. A recent Leith meeting included CCllrs in the presentations and in the workshop delivery. Council officials are ‘bureaucrats’ and used to meetings, recording meetings and that style of information exchange. But part of the role of NPs is to get rid of bureaucracy and focus on the delivery of services. So joint plans of action are the way forward. We are interested in developing sub-groups that are, where possible, chaired by CCllrs or members of the community, with responsibilities for spending allocated funds. It is important that those activists working in those roles are supported by NP and council officials. We also need to be aware of not alienating Tenants’ Associations, which often have a long history of working with the council to improve the delivery of services.
A CCllr from Muirhouse/Salveson noted that some local authority Cllrs use public and business meetings to promote political agendas, often taking a ‘strong political stance’ in public meetings. This creates a big barrier for community representatives. They need to become more aware that they are spoiling the delivery for us. Local people need to be leading the process.
Peter Strong: The aim has been for NPs not to be party political but this has sometimes been a difficult adjustment for some to make. However it is acknowledged that if NPs become too political other partners can find it off putting..
David Lyon: As part of the review of NPs reconfirmed that NPs should not operate on a party political basis but should focus working in the best interests of the community. This was also an issue that could be addressed as part of the NP Development Programme. NP convenors have some ideas about how to make meetings less formal.
Mike Penny: The City centre NP has a unique situation in that the 23,000 residents are also living with 50,000 people who work but generally do not live in their area, the same number again of shoppers and in excess of one million visitors to the area every year. This means that community members number only 10 per cent of the population. We did a lot of outreach to the public while developing our Community Plan. We know that there is a significant amount of tension between the residents and the more transient members of the community.
A Merchiston CCllr said he saw himself as an ‘information broker’, his role being to learn at meetings such as these and report back to his members. Any meeting or dialogue which supports that process is to be welcomed. However in matters such as recycling, for example, community activists want devolved budgets.
Mike Avery and Mike Penny: Participatory budgeting which gives devolved responsibility for small amounts of money is the goal. Some of this funding is called ‘appearance matters money. More likely to see evidence of these plans in next years budgets. Roads budgeting already reflects this goal – the community can influence priorities.
A Merchiston CCllr. noted that NP minutes do not give sufficient details about questions from the floor – minutes need to be more representative. A request for a debate about the implications of a proposed merger of Lothian buses and Tie has been ignored on several occasions. Tollcross noted that this item is now on the agenda for discussion at a forthcoming NP meeting.
Tollcross CCllr said that NPs need to communicate more with each other. Cramond CCllr agreed and noted that, with a query about drains for example, it can be easy to be lost in the communication process
Mike Avery: This is ‘process engineering’ and it does need improving. The customer who calls with a need should be able to get service on the ground promptly.
Mike Penny: Services for communities was formed by amalgamating several departments, each of which have separate IT systems. Dialogue between those systems can be very slow and ineffective. We are working to improve these processes, piloting a programme that allows the systems to be linked.
David Lyon: The approach is known as ‘right first time’ and has been piloted in the South West Neighbourhood office but it will be rolled out eventually to all Neighbourhoods We need to get results quickly and we are actively working towards achieving this.
Liberton CCllr: NPs could learn from the very effective central communication centre operated by Lothian and Borders police. The capital investment in this would be huge, but the benefits would also be dramatic. Their situation is very different from what we have to do, but the efficiency of their system is perhaps something that we could take on board.
Leith Central CCllr noted that the former Local Development Committees seemed to be more accountable. If someone wasn’t fulfilling their duties properly, it was possible to have attention drawn to this effectively. Accountability was tighter – now complaints seem to get lost and not followed through. .
David Lyon: This would be a worry if people felt that LCDs were more effective as vehicles of accountability than NPs. The review highlighted that there was a key role for NPs in scrutinising the performance of local service s, not just SfC, and holding service providers to account..
Leith Central CCllr: A meeting with the chair of a local sub-group on Health and Well Being lead to a recommendation that the group members have access to the strategic decision makers at least once or twice a year. Is this a realistic expectation?
Peter Strong: LDCs might have been able to get a manager along to a meeting to answer a particular question but NPs through the sub-groups should be able to look at issues in more depth and therefore get a more meaningful response and solution. Better dialogue between yourselves and all levels of the NPs can be improved. Bodies like the EACC need to continue to show the initiative that you have demonstrated with this meeting to develop that dialogue. By representing the views of all CCs you are in a position to help shape the policy decisions across the city. There is support for the NP framework from all parties except the Conservative party.
Tollcross CCllr who sits on a sub-group for HMOs said that it feels as if they are still a long way from where the decisions are taken. It seems that if an elected councillor disapproves of a recommendation, he/she has the ultimate decision veto this.
Craigleith/Blackhall CCllr said that the flow of information definitely needs to improve. If the Scottish Governments sends out a request for comments on an issue, like the ‘zero tolerance for waste’ proposal for example, by the time it reaches the community there is often very little time left to respond.
Portobello CCllr concurred that the timetable can sometimes be ‘ridiculous’, with only two days left to respond before the deadline.
The chair asked all members of the panel to give their comments about looking to the future. He asked how both sides of the debate can be mutually useful to each other?
Cramond CCllr said that reports and all communications from the council need to be in ‘plain english’ instead of council jargon that can leave the reader/listener bewildered and still uninformed.
Mike Avery noted that NP managers and their colleagues also suffer from the tight timetables.
But crucially we need to keep this dialogue going. Success is about developing and building the relationships.
Mike Penny said that the measure of success is ‘does it work?’ We all need to be innovative.
Peter Strong: Continue to be proactive in seeking this kind of dialogue. We as managers appreciate being able to take part is such a debate and the sharing of information and ideas.
David Lyon: We will continue to work with the EACC to look at how they can be supported to become effective and confident in representing the views of all sections of their community The NP conference on the 30th September will continue this process. . We will also actively support the further dialogue process with the EACC.
The chair thanked both the panel and the attendees for a ‘valuable and interesting’ debate. The meeting concluded at 9pm.
